The Catholic monk was actually correct in using the letters JHVH, that is because in the Latin language (and even in the later German language) those letters are pronounced the same as the letters YHWH are pronounced in modern English. As the for the vowels, the monk (not being a practicing Jew) made an honest mistake. The vowels were the equivalent to the Hebrew vowel points written in the divine name in the those copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that have vowel points. What the monk didn't know is that in regards to the divine name the vowel points in the Hebrew text for the divine name are for the vowels of Adonai (Lord), and maybe sometimes Elohim (God), and that it was to remind Jewish religious readers of the text to not pronounce the divine name, but to say Adonai (Lord) or maybe Elohim (God) instead.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Jehovah's Witnesses Started By Christiandom
by mrquik ina little background first.
my first father- in-law, levi peterson was born in 1889. he personally knew rutherford.
he started the newark, ny congregation.
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What to do with old publications
by TonyMorronTheTurd inhi guys,.
it's been a while since i posted here, but i feel like posting again.. it's hard sometimes to find the energy to post here after i expend all my time working a full time job and pretending i care about the wt$ at the same time.. i've been trying to slowly wake my girlfriend up ever since i first posted here, and i must say it is a long waiting game that i am playing right now.
almost all my efforts are dismissed and i've been slowly losing hope.. anyways, what i meant to really post here today is about old publications.. honestly anything that has to do with the watchtower and jdubs, as of recently makes me feel like vomiting.
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Disillusioned JW
Besides the WT books I listed in an earlier post, I'm also keeping bound volumes of the WT for the years 1993 - 1999, largely because some of them include major doctrinal changes - changes which convinced me I was better off studying the Bible on my own than exclusively using WT literature for Bible study. I also keep the hardcover WT publications indexes for the years 1930 - 1985 and 1986 -2000 and I have the WT Library 1995 and 1999 CD-ROMs. Having the CD-ROMs makes up for most of the WT publications I sold off on eBay and they will make up for many of those I intend to sell later.
I obtained hardly any WT literature published since the year 2001 since it was around the year 2001 that I essentially stopped attending all JW meetings. It was also around that year that I began my own independent critical thinking of the WT's publications in earnest, and when I began studying the Bible independently in earnest, using multiple English translations of the Bible (including study Bibles) and eventually also using some commentaries and Bible dictionaries produced by 'Christendom'. Eventually I also began studying atheistic web pages and atheist books critical of the Bible and of Christianity.
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What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inseeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.
i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).
in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.
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Disillusioned JW
Page 88 of the Proclaimers book shows part of the front cover of the paperback book/booklet called "Millions Now Living Will Never Die".
Look at the artifact of the Proclamation shown on page 427 of the Proclaimers book. I can actually read many of its words by using a high powered magnifying glass. It says in part "... we are opposed to fraud and deception being practiced upon the people by the misrepresentation of the Word of God or otherwise." Those words condemn some of the content of some of the WT's literature!
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What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inseeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.
i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).
in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the 'millions now living will never die' doctrine, I at one time had an edition of Rutherford's "Harp of God" book *(which I purchased from an eBay auction) which had the subtitle of "Proof Conclusive That Millions Now Living Will Never Die".
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What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inseeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.
i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).
in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the connection between the "Second Adventists" and the "Advent Christians" see what one of the Advent Christians himself says at https://www.adventchristianvoices.com/blog/2018/2/1/advent-christians-in-the-21st-century-part-1-looking-back .
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What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inseeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.
i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).
in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.
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Disillusioned JW
I am also keeping a number of the books you list. The following are the WT books I am keeping (at least for now):
1) "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - with References" (Revised 1984) 'study' Bible and the NWT compilation 'study' Bible of 1963 (it was compilation of the 1950-1960 volumes of the original NWT) bound into one cover and was thus the predecessor of the 1984 'study' Bible. See page 608 of the Proclaimers' book for a photo of the 1963 book.
2) "Jehovah's Witnesses -- Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" and the predecessor book from 1959 called "Jehovah's Witnesses In The Divine Purpose". These books reveal some of the origins of the JW religion and the latter makes strong doctrinal statements which the religion has now abandoned. In effect the latter book condemns some of the practices/teachings of the current WT literature. The Proclaimers book led to me researching the early second adventists and its offshoots (some of which still exist), including the Advent Christian Church, the Church of God (Seventh Day), and the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith).
3) "Did Man Get Here By Evolution Or By Creation?" (from 1967), "Life--How did it get here? By evolution or by creation?", and the brochures called "Was Life Created?" and "The Origin Of Life - Five Questions Worth Asking". These are very useful to me because they include quotes of evolutionist scientists and the sources of those quotes. Many of the scientific publications quoted from are very interesting and overwhelmingly make the case for biological evolution and chemical evolution. Those sources also provide scientific explanations for a number of perceived problems of evolution theory. In many cases I would never have learned of those scientific articles and books had I not seen them listed in the WT publications.
Likewise the book called "Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? is useful since it mentions the name of a number of important evolutionist scientists and quote from them, though frustratingly often without mentioning the publication sources of the quotes. I manged, with great effort, to determine the sources for a great many of the quotes and in doing so I learned a great deal about the evidence for cosmological evolution, chemical evolution, and biological evolution. A primary source for many of the quotes was an evangelical apologetic book (which argued from design using science [the main title of the book is called "Show Me God" and it is the first edition which the WT quoted from; in a later edition the author says he now accepts evolution and believes that the Christian God used it). The "Show Me God" book is written by a science journalist (Fred Heeren). The book accepts the big bang and an old universe and it includes many interviews of evolutionist scientists. Learning of those scientists which were interviewed helped me to then research the ideas of those scientists to learn more. In an email to me, Fred Heeren says that in addition to promoting belief in the Christian God he now also promotes evolution.
4) The KJV Reference Bible and the ASV Bible printed by the WT. Those are useful books of very low cost, but now I prefer to use a leather reference edition of the KJV (with an illustrated encyclopedic Concordance) by Oxford and a leather reference edition of the ASV (with an illustrated Bible dictionary and a Concordance) by Thomas Nelson.
5) Comprehensive Concordance of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures". My copy of this is the edition from 1973 and is specifically for the 1971 large print (with footnotes) edition of the NWT, but it also works great for all editions of the NWT up through at least the 2013 (printing) edition. Maybe the WT later revised it to produce an edition optimized for the 1984 Reference of the NWT or for the most recent edition.
6) "Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook" and "Qualified to be Ministers" (from 1955). The latter is a predecessor to the former and it includes a history of the JW religion. Also the "1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses" includes a history of the JW religion. The first two books have good content for public speaking. The history contained in the latter two books is informative.
7) "Mankind's Search for God" and "What Has Religion Done for Mankind" (from 1951). The latter is a predecessor of the former. Reading what these books said about Buddhism peaked my interest in them and contributed to me seeking information about secular Buddhism.
8) "Happiness How to Find It" and related books about happiness by the WT.
9) "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained" (from 1958) and "The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life" (1968). I keep these books because they (and the "Listening to the Great Teacher" (1971) were the ones I studied in home Bible study as a child (with my JW father teaching me from them) before I got baptized as a JW. Those books along with the 1971 edition of the NWT and the Evolution book of 1967 were the primary books which led to me making the mistake of becoming a baptized JW. [Certain WT articles and Awake! articles critical of evolution theory also sadly influenced me to become a baptized JW.] They thus help me to see how I was duped by the WT. The first two doctrinal books also contain teachings which the WT later abandoned and thus are helpful in seeing that the WT's claim of the GB of the JWs being especially used by Jehovah (Yahweh), above all others, is a false claim. I also keep the "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" book since I studied it a lot after I became baptized and thus it heavily influenced my thinking and it is a reminder of how I was influenced.
10) Bound volumes of the Awake! from 1966 - 2005. I keep them because they contain articles about science. Prior to about the year 2010 I owned less than 5 science books (though I had a 3 year subscription to a science magazine) and thus the Awake! articles on science were of great interest to me (though those articles are very simplified).
11) Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand! (1988). I keep that book because it is the first JW book that led to me starting to disbelieve the JW religion - when I was studying it one year in the congregational book studies! I thought it was nonsense that the religion's proclamations/resolutions of the 1920s were fulfillments of (or even in coordination with) the trumpet blasts mentioned in the biblical book of Revelation.
12) Reasoning from the Scriptures (1989 edition). It was informative for me to read the evolutionist sources quoted in the subject called "Evolution". I wish I had done that prior to 1990 for if I had I would have ceased activity as a JW a great many years earlier than I did, and I would have seen the problems with the book's counter arguments about evolution.13) Commentary on the Letter of James
14) True Peace and Security--How Can You find It? (1986). [It is a replacement of "True Peace and Security - From What Source? (1973) which I studied (though with no interest) in congregational meetings as a preteen prior to my baptism.] It is a reminder of the WT's flawed thinking that trapped me into remaining a convinced JW for so long. It also contains citations for a number of quotes and if I had looked up some them a long time ago it would have helped me to disbelieve the JW religion much earlier than I did. Some examples are the quotes in ph. 18 of page 30.
I had thought of keeping the Insight on the Scriptures - Volumes 1 and 2 (which are a revision and expansion of the "Aid to Bible Understanding" of 1971) and the Aid book but I almost never used them and now that I am an atheist I have even less interest in term, thus I will likely sell them. I have Bible dictionaries made by 'Christendom' which I am keeping for now since they include some comments critical of portions of the Bible. I obtained the Aid Book from a thrift store in 2006. I do like what the Aid book says in the entry under "Epicureans" in regards to the similarity with modern deism, [philosophical] materialism, and the idea of "God is dead". It is also interesting what the Aid book and vol. 2 of the Insight book say under the heading of "Stoics".
For awhile I had an interest in the Kingdom Interlinear (both editions) and the WT edition of the Emphatic Diaglott, but not such much now, since I now have little interest in comparing various English translations of the NT with the the Greek text of the NT and with interlinear translations of that text. I also have no interest in Byington's translation of the Bible.
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What to do with old publications
by TonyMorronTheTurd inhi guys,.
it's been a while since i posted here, but i feel like posting again.. it's hard sometimes to find the energy to post here after i expend all my time working a full time job and pretending i care about the wt$ at the same time.. i've been trying to slowly wake my girlfriend up ever since i first posted here, and i must say it is a long waiting game that i am playing right now.
almost all my efforts are dismissed and i've been slowly losing hope.. anyways, what i meant to really post here today is about old publications.. honestly anything that has to do with the watchtower and jdubs, as of recently makes me feel like vomiting.
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Disillusioned JW
The environment is a precious thing to protect (and the USA and the rest of the world needs to do much more to combat climate change), thus I urge you not burn the books; instead it would be far better to have them recycled if you intend to dispose of the books. That way the paper content can be used to make more books or other paper products without the paper being wasted and with far less damage to the air. If your home has curb side recycling then using that would be the easiest way to recycle them. If you are concerned that someone might retrieve the books (and get deceived by them) before the recycling company shows up (or if you don't have curb side recycling), then take the books directly to a recycling facility.
However even better than recycling them would be to sell them on eBay. They might not sell much per book and thus it might not be worth the hassle of selling them individually online, but if that is the case you can put more than 10 books in each auction listing (though that will reduce the price per book) so that you spend less time on the listings. Sometimes non-English language editions get higher prices per book than the English editions, but only if the auction listing says you are willing to ship to countries outside of the USA (especially countries in Europe). If the books have content that might help JWs to stop believing in the JW religion, then in your auctions you can include quotes from the books that draw attention to such information. That way it will be easier for doubting JWs to find your books and buy them (and it might increase the price you will receive for the books).
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The WT fake chimp (for those who missed it)
by Mr Ben inafter a discussion in the live chatroom i realised some did not know of the watchtowers fake chimp.
i first saw it as a link on janhs old site, but i can no longer find the url for the original, which i believe was from the norwegian agnostic society, or something like that.
the next time a dub calls on you ask them why they are forced to believe that chimpanzees do not have canine teeth.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the WT illustrations referring to Chimpanzee skull and Extinct Ape skull, I think I have found an explanation. a number of online sources mention that William King Gregory was curator at the American Museum of Nations History (the same museum mention the Evolution book regarding the extinct ape). https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Evolution-of-the-human-skull-The-William-K-Gregory-model-American-Museum-of-Natural_fig12_304906891 makes use of source by Gregory in which an "Anthropoid (Chimpanzee" skull is used to illustrate on the stages of evolution toward mankind. The shape of that skull bears resemblance to the one in the two WT books. The one at https://wellcomecollection.org/works/au6kdyhx (using Gregory as a source) bears very strong resemblance to the one in the two WT books. The latter source identifies the skull as "Anthropoid (female chimpanzee)". Another source with the same looking skull says it is a juvenile female ape (I don't have the link for that source at this moment since I am making this post away from my home computer). This is not a male skull (whether juvenile or adult) and not an adult female skull, but a juvenile female chimpanzee skull as illustrated by William King Gregory. I doubt Gregory was claiming humans evolved from chimpanzees, but rather was saying that an extinct ape that humans evolved from had a skull resembling that of female juvenile (but not likely infant) chimpanzees. I suspect that the later two illustrations are in Gregory's 1951 book called "Evolution Emerging: A Survey of Changing Pattern's from Primal Life to Man" (I recall an online source referring that book as a source for illustration used on the online site). Furthermore, since in the 1960s many evolutionist anthropology books said that Ramapithecus was a hominid and a human ancestor (partly because the teeth discovered of it by that time resembled human teeth [the front most teeth, including the canines, not yet being found]), ideas about Ramapithecus teeth might have been used to make a reconstruction of the teeth of a presumed extinct ape ancestor of mankind and maybe including it in the illustration that the WT had access to.
Furthermore, a book (by Robert Jastrow, I think it was the one called "The Enchanted Loom: Mind in the Universe") quoted the WT's Creation book, has an illustration of a presumed extinct ape ancestor of humans. A footnote for the ape skull in the lineage says that the a chimpanzee skull is used to represent what the extinct ape skull looked like.
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Watchtower Evolution Fraud
by Amazing inthe watchtower society first published a book on evolution in the late 1960s or early 1970s, simply known as the evolution book.
it is a small hardbound book, the same in size at the old "truth" book.
other than reading it, i never really studied it.
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Disillusioned JW
If by "all major groups of animals" you have in mind major species, genera, and taxonomic families, you are correct in saying they did not appear at the same time. However, I think the WT meant (or is referring to a source that meant) higher level taxonomic groups, specifically phyla. A number of evolutionist science books say that all of the major phyla of animals appeared in the Cambrian Period. An online source at https://burgess-shale.rom.on.ca/en/science/origin/04-cambrian-explosion.php says regarding the Cambrian Period explosion that "The explosion is particularly remarkable because all major animal body plans (each more or less corresponding to a distinctive Phylum - Mollusca and Chordata, for example) appeared during this time, changing the biosphere forever. " https://www.livescience.com/28098-cambrian-period.html says regarding the Cambrian "It is clear that representatives of every animal phylum, excepting only the Bryozoa, existed by this time."
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Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment
by rory-ks in(this recent forum post about a letter of disassociation encouraged me to post this new topic.
it's been sitting in my drafts folder for a little while, but now is as good a time as any.).
my suggestion would be, try not to go down the route of disassociation.
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Disillusioned JW
rory-ks, regarding when I did it, "I wrote and mailed such a letter a few months ago", or so. I have not received any response/reaction to it. I am happy to have sent it.